In 2004, Li Kemei and her husband Tang Xiuguo (President of Sany Group) established the Deqing Education Special Fund followed by the Beijing Deqing Foundation in 2016, CAPS spoke to Li Kemei in 2021 to learn more about her story of promoting rural music education. 

2004年，李克梅和丈夫唐修国（三一集团总裁）发起成立了德清教育专项基金；2016年，夫妇两人又发起成立了北京德清公益基金会。2021年6月,  CAPS与李克梅女士进行了一次线上对话，希望了解她推动德清基金会做乡村音乐教育的故事。 

CAPS: Can you share with us the philanthropic work of your organization?
能否与我们分享贵机构的公益事业？ 

Li Kemei: The Deqing Foundation focuses on rural music education. We chose a specific entry point – vocal training for children. Our goal is to enable every rural child to receive quality music education and illuminate their hearts through their voices.  

李克梅：德清基金会的定位是一个小而美的基金会，我们聚焦在乡村音乐教育，选择了一个非常小的切入口——合唱，希望通过这个支点，撬动各方力量，实现“让每一个乡村孩子都能接受有质量的音乐教育”的愿景，用童声照亮童心。 

Focusing on education, particularly music education, is a long-term investment that may not show immediate results. However, we believe that we are laying the groundwork for future success. As we say in Chinese, “You must prepare the soil before planting seeds.” 

聚焦教育领域，尤其是音乐教育领域，意味着我们选择了一条短时间看不到明显效果的路，但是没关系，我们不着急，我们做的就是润物细无声的工作，就像土壤板结时，总要有人先做一些松土工作，苗子才能慢慢长出来。 

We have been working hard over the years to create an ecosystem for rural education. Non-profit organizations focusing on rural education cannot work in silos. It’s essential to integrate our efforts with the local education ecosystem and to support local education workers, such as education foundations, education bureaus, principals, and teachers, with new ideas, mechanisms, and resources. 

多年下来，我一直坚持一点，乡村的教育有它的生态，公益组织帮扶乡村教育，不能孤立地做，了解、融入到当地的教育生态很有必要，通过新的理念、机制和资源来激发当地教育工作者（教育局、教育基金会、校长和老师们）的活力非常重要。 

CAPS: Is there any connection between your philanthropy and Sany Group’s corporate social responsibility (CSR) efforts?
请问您的慈善事业和三一的企业社会责任是否有关联？若有，您认为两者之间的互动关系是怎么样的？ 

Li Kemei: The two are closely linked. As the president of Sany Group, my husband Tang Xiuguo has a mission to fulfill the company’s social responsibilities. A major part of Sany Group’s CSR is conducted through the Sany Foundation which aims to drive innovation on important social issues. As members of the family, we have chosen to focus on music education philanthropy as our intersection point. For example, every summer, we invite at least a hundred village teachers to Changsha for intensive training. This would not be possible without the comprehensive support of Sany Group, which provides catering, accommodation and logistics. 

李克梅：唐修国作为三一集团的总裁，履行社会责任也是他的使命；从个人和家族出发，我们选择了一个较小的切入口，聚焦在音乐教育公益，我们做的是小事，只能说是三一企业社会责任大版图中的一点补充。德清基金会最初起源于我和先生回馈家乡、回馈社会的想法。我们认为，一个人经营好了自己的家庭，在自己的能量半径内为家乡，为社会，为国家做些力所能及的事情是时代赋予我们的使命。从2015年基金会聚焦音乐教育公益开始，我们的能量半径逐渐越拓越宽，这离不开三一的支持。每年暑期我们都会邀请乡村师生到长沙参加集中培训，动辄几百人，没有三一集团在食住行提供支持，我们是没有底气做的。

CAPS: Are there any philanthropic projects that have inspired your work?
请问您是否能与我们分享一个您认为最为成功的公益项目？ 

Li Kemei: Yes, one project that I find particularly inspiring is the El Sistema project, also known as the Venezuelan National Youth Orchestra System. Venezuela was the largest oil producer and exporter in South America during the ‘50s and ’60s, but there was a significant wealth disparity in the country. Many people were unemployed, leading to social unrest and an increase in juvenile crime rates. In 1975, Dr. Jose Antonio Abreu launched the “Music Society Movement” and established the first youth orchestra in Venezuela. Two years later, this orchestra achieved impressive results in international music competitions held in the UK, which caught the attention of the Venezuelan government. In 1977, the government supported the establishment of the State Foundation for the National System of Youth and Infant Orchestras of Venezuela (FESNOJIV), hoping to influence society through music education. 

李克梅：德清基金会主要聚焦在音乐教育领域，所以更多地关注这个类别的公益项目。我个人非常喜欢委内瑞拉国立青少年管弦乐团系统这个项目。委内瑞拉是南美洲最大的石油生产和出口国，但国内贫富差距巨大，特别是在上世纪五六十年代，全球石油生产过剩的背景下，大量底层人民失业，社会动荡，青少年犯罪率不断攀升。1975年，阿布莱坞博士发起“音乐社会运动”，组建委内瑞拉第一支青少年管弦乐团，2年后，这支乐团在英国阿伯丁举办的国际音乐赛事中获得好成绩，由此受到政府关注。1977年，政府支持成立委内瑞拉国立青少年管弦乐团系统基金会，希望通过音乐教育影响社会。 

This project was successful for two reasons. First, the project has a well-designed structure that makes it actionable and sustainable. The project’s goal is clear, not only to cultivate musicians but also to instill a sense of responsibility, happiness, and passion for music, while becoming a contributing member of society. The project achieves this through a pyramid-shaped talent cultivation system, where children progress through choir, children’s orchestra, youth orchestra, and a professional orchestra. Group-based lectures solve the problem of insufficient teachers and help young people develop strong values. Peer teaching is also encouraged which helps improve the efficiency of rehearsals and creates a pool of future teachers. 

之所以觉得这个项目成功有两个方面：一是项目本身体系设计科学，可行性强且能可持续地执行下去。首先，项目的目标非常清晰，并不是培养音乐家，而是培养有责任感、幸福感，热爱音乐，对社会有贡献的公民。围绕这个目标，项目设计了金字塔培养体系，以社区为中心集中授课，从3岁开始接受登记入团，逐步从合唱团、少儿乐团、青少年管弦乐团、专业乐团的阶梯式路径培养青少年。团队一起接受授课既能缓解教师不足的问题，也对于青少年形成正确的三观有极大帮助，同时项目还提倡“同辈教学”，高级团队学生有义务担任初级团队的指导，这样不仅有助于提高日常排练效率，让乐团氛围更加轻松友爱，同时还培养了未来的教师储备资源。 

Second, this project can be replicated. The project’s management model is top-down, where foundations can establish community centers and provide funding for their basic operations. Community centers can utilize societal resources and parent groups to raise 20% of the funding needed. They can also maintain close contact with companies, families, and young people in the community. The project’s management model has significantly reduced the juvenile crime rate in the community and improved the living environment. As of 2017, more than 300 community centers have been established, providing systematic music education to 350,000 young people every year, which is 1% of Venezuela’s population. Over 40 countries and regions worldwide have drawn inspiration from this project when creating their own models. 

另一个项目的成功点在于它的可复制性，它的管理模式为自上而下，通过基金会在全国各城市建立社区中心，并拨款保证社区基本运营，同时社区中心通过各自的社区资源、家长群体等接受社会捐助，自筹20%左右的经费，与社区内的公司、家庭、青少年保持密切联系，有研究表明该项目所在社区的青少年犯罪率显著降低，这也同时改善了社区生活环境。项目的管理模式决定了它可以有效地复制到委内瑞拉其他社区，截至2017年，委内瑞拉建立了超过300个社区中心，每年35万青年能接受到体系化的音乐教育，这一数字占委内瑞拉人的1/100。全球有40多个国家和地区复制了或参考了该项目，建立了各自的青少年管弦乐团系统。 

CAPS: How has this project influenced your work?
这个项目对您的公益事业有什么样的启发？ 

Li Kemei: I think that learning from the execution and actual effect of the El Sistema project is very valuable. It has inspired me to think about how our “Happy Chorus 3+1 – the Promotion of Choral Art in Rural Middle & Primary Schools” project can benefit more rural teachers and students. A choir can also help alleviate rural children’s loneliness and boost their confidence and happiness. My country has a strong tradition of choral singing, particularly in singing patriotic songs, which provides a good foundation for the choral community. 

李克梅：这个项目不管在执行还是效果上，都是很值得学习的，这不禁让我想到我们自己的“快乐合唱 3+1—乡村中小学合唱艺术推广”公益项目，如何让更多乡村师生受益，是我一直在思考的。与乐团一样，合唱团也是团体艺术，有助于缓解乡村孩子们的孤独情绪，帮助他们更自信更快乐地成长。且我国一直有红歌合唱的传统，合唱群众基础较好。 

The “Happy Chorus 3+1” project may seem complicated, but it has a simple underlying logic, consisting of three modules: building a teacher training system to help deliver excellent music classes, providing a chorus performance platform to accompany children’s growth, and setting up a research and exchange platform to promote rural aesthetic education development. As of December 31, 2022, the “Happy Chorus 3+1” project has trained 8,410 music teachers, hosted 5 “Happy Chorus 3+1” public benefit concerts, and successfully conducted “Primary and Secondary School Chorus Performances” in 14,970 classes across 763 primary and secondary schools in 19 counties across three provinces, benefiting 863,577 students. 

 “快乐合唱3+1”这个项目看起来复杂，但其实底层逻辑很简单，分三个模块：构建教师培训体系帮助上好音乐课，提供合唱展演舞台陪伴孩子成长，搭建研究交流平台推动乡村美育发展。截至2022年12月31日，“快乐合唱3+1”项目培训了8410人次音乐教师，举办了5场“快乐合唱3+1”公益音乐会，在三省19县763所中小学14,970个班级顺利开展了“中小学合唱展演”，惠及863,577名中小学生。 

We started with the project design and management model, aiming to create a stepped choral growth system and music teacher training program that is suitable for China. We also want to develop a platform that showcases the project’s achievements in multiple areas, intending to provide every rural child with quality music education. 

我们从项目设计和项目管理模式着手， 希望能通过打造适合中国国情的梯级合唱团成长体系、阶梯式音乐教师培训体系和多维成果展示平台，让每一个乡村孩子都能接受有质量的音乐教育。 

It is an honor to be interviewed by CAPS, and I hope that this opportunity will enable more people to see how foundations in China are promoting the popularization and development of music education through the chorus charity program. 

这次非常荣幸能够接受亚洲公益事业研究中心（CAPS）的访谈，希望以此契机也能让更多人看到中国的基金会是如何通过合唱公益项目推动音乐教育普及和发展的。

Poverty elimination has been a mass mobilization campaign in China. To accomplish this task, the Chinese government encouraged financial institutions to lend more and support local projects, as well as the private sector to contribute through investment funds and charitable foundations. Read the article from CAPS’ Angel Chiang here.

In February 2021, President Xi Jinping announced that poverty in China had been eradicated. This report explains how the Chinese government realized this ambition, orchestrating all possible support, encouraging financial institutions to lend more and provide assistance to local projects, and directing private businesses to contribute via industry investment funds and philanthropic foundations.

As the country forges ahead with its goal of realizing common prosperity, China’s poverty governance system will need to be reconstructed in line with its rural revitalization plan and new development goals. Government, society, and the market will need to coordinate efforts to mobilize resources towards alleviating relative poverty, paying special attention to the wellbeing of migrant workers and the elderly. This report also considers how philanthropy can contribute to rural development and facilitate more effective private social investment. This is particularly important as many people are still unsure about what the national strategy of rural revitalization entails.

This report is the final volume in our four-part China Issue Guide series that explores “philanthropy with Chinese characteristics” across key areas. Having covered health, environmental protection, and education, we now turn our attention to individual and corporate giving toward poverty alleviation and rural revitalization. As our issue expert, Yu Jiantuo, Vice Secretary-General of the China Development Research Foundation (CDRF), contributed a chapter examining the current state of poverty in China.

Our data comes from more than 5,600 Chinese foundations’ annual reports mined from publicly available government databases; interviews with 50 principals, management teams of foundations, social service organizations, and scholars; media resources including the Philanthropy Times were also utilized.

2021年2月，中国国家主席习近平宣布，中国已消除绝对贫困。本报告解释了中国政府如何协调一切可能的支持并实现这一目标，包括鼓励金融机构向地方项目提供更多贷款和金融援助，并引导私营企业通过产业投资基金和慈善基金会进行捐助。

随着中国朝着实现共同富裕的目标迈进，中国的贫困治理体系需要根据乡村振兴计划和新的发展目标进行重构。政府、社会和市场将需要协调努力，调动资源以缓解相对贫困，并特别关注农民工和老年人的福祉。本报告也描绘了慈善事业如何促进乡村发展和促进更有效的私人社会投资。

本报告是《中国社会公益慈善指南》中的最后一册，该系列研究旨在深入解析“具有中国特色的公益慈善事业”在各个关键议题领域的面貌。在完成医疗卫生、自然环境和教育议题的研究后，我们现转向探究个人与企业在扶贫和乡村振兴领域的公益慈善事业。我们也非常荣幸邀请到中国发展研究基金会副秘书长俞建拖为本报告撰写了一章关于中国扶贫经验的概述。

本研究的主要数据来自官方公开的数据库，共覆盖 5,600 多个中国基金会年度报告、40,000多个公益项目。同时，我们专访了50位基金会负责人、管理团队、社会服务机构及学者；也参考了大量中国公益行业媒体的报道。

There has always been a deep and abiding history of philanthropic support for education in China. This article by CAPS’ Angel Chiang and Irene Liu looks at the key characteristics of education philanthropy as part of the China Issue Guide series. Read it here.

China’s education system has developed rapidly over the past four decades, expanding to provide opportunities to a larger number and wider range of people. At the beginning of the founding of New China, the country was home to an estimated 440 million illiterate adults. Today, China’s education sector is the world’s largest, and it has achieved universal nine-year compulsory education.

Yet China’s size and complexity mean that needs persist. Rural institutions have historically lacked infrastructure, learning materials and qualified teachers, which has impacted student outcomes. In the last two decades, China has invested heavily in rural schools using a range of strategies and mechanisms. Despite this, urban-rural inequity remains in terms of accessibility and education quality.

Looking at the flow of philanthropic funds in China, education has long been the most popular funding destination. This is partially due to education’s place in the Chinese value system and tradition, and the perception that it is the most important foundation for upward mobility.

This report, the third in our China Issue Guide series, focuses on education philanthropy. It looks at local and specific efforts to see how Chinese individual and corporate philanthropy address educational needs and obstacles across the nation. Professors Wang Rong and Wei Yi of Peking University’s Institute for Educational Finance Research; Zhang Li, former Director of the Education Development Research, Ministry of Education; and Yu Jiantuo, Deputy Secretary-General of the China Development Research Foundation contributed to a chapter examining the current state of the education in China.

Our data comes from more than 5,600 Chinese foundations’ annual reports mined from publicly available government databases; interviews with 50 principals, management teams of foundations, social service organizations, and scholars; media resources including the Philanthropy Times were also utilized.

中国的教育系统在过去四十年里迅速发展，强化优质教育的供给、向更多人提供更多选择机会。新中国成立之初，有约八成人口都是文盲。时至今日，中国已建成世界规模最大的教育体系，并基本实现了九年义务教育的普及。

然而，中国教育问题的规模和复杂性意味着需求仍然存在。多年来，农村学校基础设施建设、教育资源与优质教师团队存在缺口，影响了学生的发展。过去二十年，中国政府实施教育优先发展战略，向农村倾斜投入了大量教育经费。尽管如此，在教育可及性和教学质量方面，城乡差异仍然存在。

纵观中国公益慈善捐赠的流向，教育常年来一直是最受欢迎的资助领域。这一现象部分源于教育在中国文化与传统观念中有着重要的价值和地位，人们也普遍认为教育是个体向上社会流动的重要基础。

本报告是我们由四部分组成的《中国社会公益慈善指南》“具有中国特色的公益慈善事业”在关键议题领域的面貌。在完成医疗卫生和自然环境议题的研究后，我们现转向探究个人与企业在教育领域的公益慈善事业，探析中国的教育在过去几十年间的发展目标是如何从“有学上”转向“上好学”的，并关注民间力量在这一过程中能够通过慈善捐赠和开展公益事业起到的作用。我们也非常荣幸邀请到北京大学中国教育财政科学研究所教授王蓉和魏易博士、教育部教育发展研究中心原主任张力，以及中国发展研究基金会副秘书长俞建拖为本文第二章内容提供了宝贵的指导。

本研究的主要数据来自官方公开的数据库，共覆盖 5,600 多个中国基金会年度报告、40,000多个公益项目。同时，我们专访了50位基金会负责人、管理团队、社会服务机构及学者；也参考了大量中国公益行业媒体的报道。

曾两年连续以巨额现金捐赠被列为“中国首善”的腾讯创始人之一陈一丹，2013 年从腾讯首席行政官卸任后，以公益慈善和教育为志业。2022 年 5 月，CAPS 联合创始人兼主席陈启宗与陈一丹进行了一次线上对话，希望了解他多年投身公益慈善事业的心得以及他对促进教育事业发展的理解。

Tencent founder Charles CHEN Yidan is recognized as one of China’s most charitable men. Since stepping down from his role as Tencent’s Chief Administrative Officer in 2013, he has been pursuing his goal of supporting education through a variety of philanthropic initiatives. In May 2022, CAPS Co-Founder and Chairman Ronnie C. Chan had a conversation with Charles to learn about his philanthropy and his understanding of how to promote education development. 

陈一丹：谢谢 Ronnie。应该说我们是随着改革开放成长起来的一代，不管是城市还是农村长大，基本上都是小康之家。所以温饱问题或是从家里获得的安全感和成长性都是比较好的。而这个过程中，虽然国家原来经济发展较薄弱，但在我们成长过程中，一直是蒸蒸日上的趋势。从我们小学、初中到大学，再走向工作，很幸运是在一个改革开放的时代，经济的不断增长和各种机遇涌现，再加上我们从事的互联网行业更是和世界接轨，促使我们不断在学习、在成长，也就造就了我们这一代人。

至于怎么看钱财，可能就是一个为社会做点事的机会。人跟社会的联动，只要对社会有利的，都会变成一种正向循环。我是深圳长大的，从小从港澳和内地电视上都能看到东华三院向内地的水灾捐资募款，而且无论是企业家还是市民都会去捐助，这样的熏陶和传承是很重要的。用中国文化传统来讲，叫做积善之家必有余庆；或者从佛家观点来讲，利，如果是去财布施，或是法布施，甚至无畏布施，这都是根植在人的本性里的。

Charles CHEN Yidan: Thank you, Ronnie. We are the generation that grew up during the period of Reform and Opening-up, so whether we grew up in the city or in the countryside, we were basically well provided. We had sufficient food and clothing as well as a sense of security, it was all going well for us. Several decades ago, although the country’s economic development was relatively weak, we saw development and prosperity improve day by day. We were lucky that we were situated in this era of reform, all the way from school to work. The roaring economy, the many opportunities, and the fact that we were in the internet business connected us with the rest of the world. All these allowed us to keep learning and growing. This is how our generation was minted.

As for my perspective on money, it provides an opportunity to do something for society. People’s positive actions beget a cycle of positivity in the society. I grew up in Shenzhen [Special Economic Zone] and witnessed how the Tung Wah Group of Hospitals donated to disaster relief in the flooded areas of  China at a young age. Everyone, entrepreneurs and citizens, would donate and help. This legacy is very important. In the Chinese cultural tradition, good deeds will be rewarded. Or from the Buddhist point of view, whether it’s a gift of material things, a gift of the dharma (truth), or even a gift of fearlessness, those are all rooted in human nature.

陈启宗：那你为什么做慈善？这么多年做慈善有哪些心得可以和我们分享？

Ronnie C. Chan: So why philanthropy? What have been the biggest learnings you have had personally from it?

陈一丹：慈善理念是中国传统文化的根基。我认为每个人心中都有一颗种子，只要做一些力所能及的事就好，心都是一样的。对我来说，做慈善是一个很自然的事情。很幸运这些年我能够专注做公益慈善。

在腾讯最初成立时，2007 年我参与发起互联网企业第一家慈善基金，一晃也十几年了。在这个实践探索中，我有三个点可以分享：第一，社会痛点是公益慈善的起点。你如果去观察公益行业，其实痛点不少，我的想法是把问题看成是有待解决的需求，问题即需求。这其实跟中医一样，痛则不通，通则不痛。

第二，要借助科技和公益平台的建设来驱动公益行业的发展。经过这么多年发展，人人公益已经实现了。那么接下来就是加强其透明度建设和多方参与，让公益生态更加健康——这是我们持续在做的事情，也是行业的共识。

第三，我们做公益慈善实际上还须求根求本。要看到问题背后的形成因素是什么，要解决的问题是什么，要深刻去理解问题。那么在公益的实践中，我慢慢意识到，无论你是问题土壤的改善、推动技术的发展、培育人心的向善，最终还是回到人身上。所以我就比较关注教育，因为归根结底都是人的问题。

Charles CHEN Yidan: The concept of charity is rooted in traditional Chinese culture. I think the seed of charity is planted in everyone’s heart. We just do what we can. For me, doing charity is a very natural thing. Luckily these years I could focus on doing charity full-time.

More than a decade ago, I participated in launching the first charity fund for Chinese internet companies in 2007. From this experience, I have three points to share: First, social pain points are the starting point of philanthropy. The social sector has many pain points, my idea is to see problems as needs to be solved. Similar to Chinese medicine practitioners when they say, Tong Ze Bu Tong, Tong Ze Bu Tong.[1]

Secondly, the development of philanthropy can utilize the development of technology and social giving platforms. After so many years of hard work, everyone can now participate in giving. The next step is to strengthen transparency and multi-stakeholder participation to foster a robust philanthropic ecology—this is what we are doing continuously and is also the consensus of the sector.

Third, doing philanthropy is actually about addressing the root of the problem. We need to understand the root cause in order to fundamentally solve the issue. Through philanthropy, I gradually realized that whether you are improving conditions around the problem, promoting the development of technology, or cultivating the goodness of people, it ultimately comes back to people. And education is all about people.

陈启宗：在聊你个人公益事业前，我想聊一下腾讯。你们发起基金会是 2007 年，当时腾讯成立不到 10 年，也不是规模最大的时候，你们几位主要创始人当时是经过怎样的考虑决定成立基金会的？

Ronnie C. Chan: Before we talk more about your philanthropy, I’d like to talk about Tencent. You launched Tencent Foundation 2007 when Tencent was less than 10 years old, why did Tencent choose to launch this philanthropic arm at that time?

陈一丹：我们 2004 年上市之后，有全面地去看这家企业的发展，而公益慈善是其中的一个方面。到了 2006 、2007 年，内地对于私人参与公益慈善的环境逐渐向好，加上我们也在思考如何创造机会回馈社会和用户，同时作为上市企业履行社会责任，于是我们几个很快就达成共识，董事会也都非常赞同，觉得这是一个走长远的企业应该去做的。

当时我们的设想是，把公益事业当成一个专业的事情来做，并且把每年公司一部分利润拨到基金会，形成长期机制。过程中，我们也获得了很多学习机会，一个是在内地不断申请成立基金会，成为第一家互联网企业基金会；第二个是学习海内外建立慈善组织的能力和经验。不过当时最重要的考虑还是跟自身企业能力跟有效资源的结合，发挥腾讯最重要的力量。我们想，既然腾讯是一家互联网公司，那就要建立一个面向公众的腾讯公益平台。

随着腾讯公益平台的发展，我们看到公众捐款开始达到 一亿、十亿、几十亿。但其实我看重的并不是捐款数额，而是这个数字背后的人群。让网友成为公益的主角，是非常重要的。因为单个人的影响力是非常有限的，如果能让更多人捐款，带动的不仅仅是捐赠额的提升，还有对公益项目的关注、监督。我看重的是这个层级的参与度和影响力以及人人参与的公益生态。

Charles CHEN Yidan: After Tencent went public in 2004, we did a comprehensive review of the development of the company. Philanthropy was one of the aspects. At the time (in 2006 and 2007), we questioned how we could create opportunities to give back to the community, as well as to fulfill our social responsibility as a listed company. Together with the Board of Directors we agreed that [establishment of Tencent Foundation] was something a long-term enterprise should do.

At first, our vision was simply to allocate a portion of the company’s profits to the foundation annually to form a long-term mechanism. During the process, we learned a lot. One was how to establish a foundation in China and become the first corporate foundation in the internet sector. Second was to learn about establishing charitable organizations at home and abroad. I must say, at the time, the leading consideration was to ensure we could align and utilize Tencent’s strengths. Therefore, as an internet company, naturally we established a public-facing Tencent charity platform.

We saw the growth of public donations reach RMB100 million, RMB 1 billion, and then dozens of billion, as Tencent’s charity platform matured. I truly value the number of people involved in social giving, more than the donation amount itself. Empowering internet users to become the protagonists of philanthropy is crucial. The influence of a single person is extremely limited, but collectively we can increase the donation amount as well as raising awareness of social issues and governance of philanthropic projects. What I value is how everyone at all levels can participate in philanthropy and the sheer influence of this level of participation.

陈启宗：非常好，难怪你被称为互联网公益的教父，实至名归。在你退休之前，能够把这样的理念注入到腾讯企业里面，非常值得尊敬。在你成立个人基金会前，你实际上已经开展许多公益事业，比如说你举办了武汉学院。但你也不是什么都捐，你主要关注教育领域。能否讲讲你为什么关注教育？你希望为社会解决什么问题？

Ronnie C. Chan: Excellent. No wonder you, deservingly, are known as the ‘Father of Internet Philanthropy’. It’s very respectable that you were able to inject such a philosophy into Tencent before you retired. Before you set up your personal foundation, you were involved in many philanthropic undertakings, for example, you founded Wuhan College. Why focus on education? What problems do you hope to solve for the society?

陈一丹：关注教育有理性的原因，也有感性的原因。感性的原因和自己从小生长环境有关，我们都是得益于教育而成长起来的。教育对我们的影响实在是太大了。我的祖母是一个文盲，但她独立把我父亲抚养成了村里的第一个大学生。大家经常说教育会带来命运的改变或是物质生活的改变，这是实实在在存在的。但是家庭教育对于一个人对幸福、对价值观的影响，是无限的。我的祖母 98 岁去世的，但每次想起她，我总觉得很有力量。

从理性层面来说，教育是一个很复杂的体系，成分很多，无论是家长、学生、政策制定者等，关乎太多人了，而如此复杂、重要又慢的体系更需要花更多的精力和理解去投入。所以，如果看到跟教育有相关的项目，我自己就会产生一定的联结，想去了解、看看有没有能力去推动、支持。有些事情是顺势而为的、有缘分就去做的，有些是主动去思考、探索的。武汉学院就是一个有缘分的事情，当时我记得他们说了一句话：你大学也可以做公益，就是这句话燃起了我的兴趣，让我想起了民国的先辈们投身到大学教育的历程。退休后，我也在这个项目上，包括从独立学院转为民办大学的过程，投入了大量精力。虽然是因缘际会，但有了武汉学院的探索之后，我后面也非常愿意支持起步定位在培养博士生的西湖大学。

另一种是主动去做的，比如一丹奖，旨在鼓励倡导人类对宇宙和人生的领悟和贡献，而它的落脚点就是教育。要想推动全球教育事业的发展，这个教育成果就必须是共享的，要有可复制性。为了建立一个好的运作机制，我们设立了全球顾问委员会，最后定的标准是：远见性、创新性、变革性和有效性。

Charles CHEN Yidan: [For me] there are both rational and emotional reasons to care about education. Emotionally, it has to do with the environment we grew up in: we all benefitted from education. My grandmother was illiterate. She was able to independently raise my father to be our village’s first college student. As one says, education can change one’s destiny or bring a change in the standard of living. The impact of family education on a person’s happiness and values is infinite. My grandmother died at the age of 98, but every time I think of her, I always feel empowered by her unconditional love.

On a rational level, education is a very complex system, involving parents, students, policy makers, and more. The complexity of this important yet slow-moving system requires one to invest more effort and time into it. Therefore, I am always looking for ways to support educational projects. Some things are done by coincidence, while some are actively thought and explored by me. Wuhan College was more like the former. Philanthropic giving for higher education ignited my interest and reminded me of China’s forefathers and their commitments to university education. After I retired, I continued to invest a lot of energy in this project, including the process of [helping Wuhan College] move from being an independent college to a private university. After the experience with Wuhan College, I was very willing to support the founding of West Lake University as well.

The other kind [of philanthropy] is the one I take the initiative to do so, such as the Yidan Prize. My intention is to encourage the advocacy of human understanding and contribution, and that begins with education. To advance the cause of global education, it must be based on outcomes that are sharable and replicable. To recognize the outstanding educational contributions of individuals, we set up a globally representative Advisory Committee to discuss the criteria that adhere to four main pillars: future-oriented, innovative, transformative, and sustainable.

陈启宗：如果你能回到起点，重来一次你会有什么事跟过去八年做的不一样的？还是你认为过去八年走的还是比较正确的？还有，你下一步打算怎么走？

Ronnie C. Chan: If you could go back to the beginning and do it all over again, what would you do differently? Or do you think the last eight years have mostly gone well? And where do you plan to go next?

陈一丹：凡是发生过的，我觉得都是感恩的，不太会回头看，也不会想去改变它。因为当时的决定都是基于当时的能力水平、资源和向往做出来的决定。所以只要心不是坏的，我觉得都不会有什么希望回头去改变的事情。

如果要谈继续往前走，我认为还是要继续把精力和资源投入在机制的建设上，让这个机制发挥最大的贡献度和作用。我认为只要在持续做的过程中对这个事情有所推动，就是成长，我是这样的一个心态，不是一定要什么结果。

Charles CHEN Yidan: I am grateful for everything , so I don’t really look back or want to change it. Because the decisions made at that time were based on the level of ability, resources, and aspirations. They were done with good intent so I don’t have any desire to change anything.

Moving forward, I think we still have to continue to put our energy and resources into the construction of the mechanism to maximize its impact and sustainability. My ethos is, as long as [we are] consistent and persistent in promoting causes we care about then we grow [as a society], it is not always about the specific outcomes.

陈启宗：我认识一丹那么多年，我觉得他的心态绝佳，他对自己、对家庭、对社会、对国家、对人类都有他自己相当有智慧的一种看法。我觉得一丹你不只是商业上非常的成功，在慈善事业上，特别是在教育这个领域里，确实做了极大的贡献，我们亚洲公益事业研究中心也期望你继续成功。再次感谢陈一丹先生接受我们的访谈，把他在公益事业上面的心路历程跟我们分享，相信会对后来的人起到非常正面的作用，谢谢一丹！

Ronnie C. Chan: I have known Charles for so many years, he has an excellent mentality, and a wise view of himself, his family, his society, his country, and humanity. He is not only very successful in business, but also in philanthropy, especially in the field of education, and we at CAPS look forward to your continued success. Once again, thank you, for speaking with us and sharing your journey in philanthropy with us, which I believe will have a very positive effect on people who come after you.

[1] This is an expression derived from a concept in traditional Chinese medicine, “Pain comes and goes with obstruction” (literal translation), describing the relationship between pain points and healing through the flow of Qi and blood. This might be thought of as, “pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional.”

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